Somebody
would think you would be more interested in politics than in the
Obafemi Awolowo Foundation, why are you not in politics?Because
if I go into politics, the only reason I would be going there is to
promote the legacy of Papa. I tried politics and I realised that it was
not the best route to promote the legacy. Because when it comes down to
what Papa stood for, it was all about development and using the
development of every individual as the building block to the larger
picture. Because Papa was very cerebral; he had a very intellectual
approach to everything he did and he wrote a lot and committed most of
his thoughts into writing.
It just made sense that that is the best way to sustain and promote
his legacy and constantly referring to his thoughts and attempting to
develop them through research, through dialogue to adapt them to
contemporary situation in Nigeria while not losing the essential core.
When I look back, I am glad that I chose the foundation.
Are you saying that the name is not enough to make headway in politics?
It
was never going to be enough anyway. To be truthful, I think that
anybody that would want to capitalise on the Awo name must also bring
something to the table as well and people have to be convinced that you
have what it takes. Partisan politics is a contest and it is all about
trying to disqualify your opponent and trying to magnify whatever the
shortcoming you think they have in the minds of people and magnifying
your own good quality. So, at that time, it just didn’t work and I moved
on.
What would you say has been the impact of the foundation?
I
wouldn’t like to say that everything that is happening around papa’s
name is due solely to the foundation. But I would like to think that we
have contributed in no small measure to keeping Papa’s memory and his
work alive and in keeping it in the minds of people through our
activities over the past 21 years. When you look around today, Papa’s
name is almost more potent than when he was alive and I think we at the
foundation have contributed to that.
As his daughter, why is it that almost everybody wants to identify with the name Awo?
I
would say it is the people who benefited from Papa’s work, activity and
philosophy in government that have kept the flame alive and they have
refused to let go the dividends and they are looking for people who will
continue that. What he stood for is enduring; it has stood the test of
time and it continues to be relevant; it continues to be the truth and
the way to go. And don’t forget, what he did, especially in education,
was nothing short of a revolution at the time because he offered free
education to people who neither asked for it nor had any idea that they
needed it.
Papa told a story of being summoned by the then Deji of Akure who
was no particular fan of his. So he went there expecting to be told off
but he said that by the time he got to his palace, the Deji had
assembled the people of the community and said what he wanted to find
out from Papa was that if it was possible for all his many children to
get free education by paying just 10 shillings as education levy. When
he was assured they would, the traditional ruler then proclaimed that
everybody should pay up and threatened to ex-communicate defaulters.
Then there was a lot of resistance to education levy in the region.
When Awolowo was alive, was it that he was writing every minute because of the volume of literature he authored?Oh
yes. He died on May 9 and when we got to his room, we found out that he
had been working all night; he had written the things to do for that
day. His devotion to this nation was total and he worked very hard to
realise it. He sacrificed a lot, he was attacked because of that but he
never looked back until the day he died.
Was it that in
the house, he had an apartment all to himself without interacting with
anyone to be able to devote time to writing?He had his room but
in his room, there was always a desk at which he could work. He worked
in the night as well; he slept very little. He would sleep and wake up
very early to work. But later in life, he would get ready for the day,
have breakfast and then go back to have a nap and then start the day
again. But he was always looking for ways to make things better and he
committed everything to all of this.
He was always keeping diary faithfully, how has that affected your life as his daughter?
We
wish we could be like him but there could only have been one Obafemi
Awolowo. Even though we are his children, we can not claim to be him. He
had been keeping diary from a very tender age and he just kept doing
that until the end. When he was going for his last outing in Warri, the
entry was in the diary and on his last day on earth, the entry was
there.
Is that why people believe he had magical powers?
Well,
he was a very deep thinker. He had the ability to study a situation and
project where it was likely to lead and he would be invariably correct.
He was always reflecting on things. Even in the personal lives of his
children, he would come out and say this thing, I don’t think you should
do it and if you do it this way, this is likely how it would come out
and invariably, you were better off listening to him.
How was it growing up as Awolowo’s daughter?
It
was very simple. He was premier when I was growing up but there was
nothing to mark us out from any other children in the neighbourhood. He
didn’t have security details more than one police constable who reported
for duty in the morning just before he left for office and went back
home when he returned from the office. The police constable had one
function; he would sit in the front of the car and that was it. There
was nothing special about us at all; we ran around the neighbourhood and
we had our friends. Honestly, I didn’t realise that there was anything
special about us at all and we went to public schools.
Probably you were closer to him than your mum?
No,
there is no possibility that happened; his wife was the closest to him.
He was a very busy man and he had very little time to spend with us but
the little time he had, he made the most of it.
Did he influence what you studied in the university?
No.
Apparently, I had decided that I was going to be a doctor since I was
like three or four years. I think mama confirmed this in her memoir and I
also had confirmation from one of the colonial officers that was posted
to the Western Region at that time; he was papa’s secretary before
independence. His name was Mr Ronnie Brown. I met him again in London as
he came to visit Papa when he led a delegation from Nigeria to the
Commonwealth Head of Government in London. That was 1969 by which time I
was a medical student. I met him and he asked me what I was doing and I
told him I was in medical school in Bristol and he said, ‘oh you made
it! You had determined to be a doctor since you were very young.’
What I do remember is that Papa would always tell me heroic stories
of what great doctors did to save lives and all of that. And my own
interpretation now is that having said that I wanted to be a doctor, he
kept telling me things that would reinforce that determination. I think
that was as far as he went; he had no influence. He did ask me though
whether I wanted to study law after I had qualified as a doctor and I
said no, that I was tired of studying, so he left it.
What kind of human being was Awolowo?
He
was completely urban-centred; he was focused on his environment and the
betterment of everybody around him. When he was asked in an interview
why he thought of free education, he answered that maybe subconsciously
because he had difficulty in acquiring education that he decided that
other people would not go through what he encountered. He said that
there would be others like him who went through the same thing and would
feel that everybody must have the same experience.
Why
do you think he found it difficult to win election to realise his dream
of leading the country even with his record at the Western Region?I
don’t know because it doesn’t make any sense. If someone had a good
track record and still wanted to do more, you would have thought that he
would be given the opportunity to do all that he wanted to do but here
we are as a result of the wrong choice that we all made.
Is it correct to call Awo a tribalist as some people have alleged?
No.
If by being a tribalist, people mean that he was very proud to be a
Yoruba man and he felt that the natural progression was to first be a
Yoruba man before anything, well, that maybe their perception. In any
case, that was where he started his politics. He started as a councillor
in Remo; then he became premier before he tried to go national. I don’t
think there was anything tribalistic in his philosophy; his ideals and
when he was premier, he fought for the minority rights. He was the only
leader of government that included delegates from the minority on his
delegation to the constitutional conferences in England before
independence. He took people like JS Taka for example to those
conferences.
Did Awolowo plan coup or train militia anywhere?
No,
certainly not. You know people say all sorts of things; that is why he
was arrested and prosecuted. They were all trumped up charges. You know
politics can be very bitter, very rough but we thank God, he was through
and he was not bitter. His attitude was that of someone that tried his
best and would love to do more but for circumstances beyond his control.
How was medical practice?
I
practised up to 2011 when I came back home but I still offer free
consultation to friends and families. I am still very much in it; it is
my passion and I love it. When I left my post as ambassador, I went back
to medicine, I looked forward to going to work everyday. I am an
occupational health physician; we manage the effect of health on work
and work on health. In other words, if there is anything in your work
environment that could affect your health adversely, we manage it and if
anything about your health could affect your work, we look into that
without necessarily denying you employment. Where I practised in
England, there are laws to govern that to make sure that for the fact
that people have chronic conditions does not mean that they are denied
employment. It’s just that every employer is obliged to make reasonable
adjustment to accommodate such persons.
But you could own a hospital here when you finished, why didn’t you take that option?
Setting
up a hospital is capital extensive but there is an effort going on to
set up the hospital that papa left behind. It never really took off at
the level that Papa envisioned. That is where we are going now and we
are making some progress in that direction. But I still keep my eye on
practice.
Your father described your mum as a jewel of
inestimable value; have you delved into their story to find out why he
came up with such description?Mama was a jewel to him really;
she was an asset to his life. You know he did his first degree by
correspondence but he did say that before he married Mama, he was having
difficulty passing his exams; but once he married her, his fortune
changed and he began to make headway in his studies. He said when he was
encouraged to go abroad and do law, Mama not only looked after the four
children, she was able to send him pocket money while she was here.
Throughout his political career, they worked strictly together and she
never complained. It would have been understandable if after all the
crisis in the first republic was over and she told him he had had
enough. But Mama was always supportive; she never complained about it.
Your name implied that you were born abroad…
No,
I was born after he came back from the UK. He named me Tokunbo maybe to
remember that he came back from abroad and I was born. I grew up here
but I went to school abroad after my school certificate.
What did you feel about what the late Prof Chinua Achebe wrote about your father in his book, There was a Country?Naturally
as his daughter, I felt distressed by such weighty accusations that
were not based on facts but fortunately, Papa had millions of children
and they did justice to that.
When he was the vice chairman to General Gowon, can you tell us the privilege you children enjoyed?
None
whatsoever. He lived in a very tiny house in Surulere, off Bode Thomas
that he rented for himself. When I came back for holiday; that was where
I met them. I was in the UK for much of the time; I didn’t even come
back until 1972. He rode in his own car with his own driver. Nothing at
all; he just did his work in service to the nation.
When he was in prison, did he express regret anytime you went to see him?
Never.
He was as defiant and as buoyant as ever. Because you will regret if
you had done anything wrong but if you are convinced that you had not
done something wrong, you would have nothing to worry about.
Were you aware that he actually anointed somebody to take over from him as Baba Kekere?
I
don’t think so; I am not aware that he anointed anyone. There was a
group of people close to him, any of whom could have taken over. If he
had lived long enough to do a proper handing over, if the circumstances
had permitted him to do that, but if you remember, he left us so
suddenly and so we would never know.
But we read it somewhere that Awolowo committed suicide to avoid humiliation from government of the day. Is it true?That
is arrant nonsense. He would never do that; he had enough faith in God.
He had no reason whatsoever to do that. Do they know the method in
which he committed suicide? They should tell us. The Babangida
administration was very well disposed to him; he had a good relationship
with IBB. Remember Babangida wrote a letter to him on his birthday;
there was no acrimony between him and the military president and I don’t
know where that one came from.
When you wanted to get married, did it occur to you that your father, being a famous man, might not approve of your choice?He
never interfered in our choices of spouse; it was just for him a no go
area. He trusted our good sense; trusted in the training he had given to
us and trusted us to make the best choice. But he would always say that
you made your choice and you would have to live with it. Whoever we
presented, he embraced.
We asked the question because you in particular retained his name, thinking that he influenced your choice of husband.That
was my choice. Professionally, I am registered as Dr. Awolowo and that
was purely my choice. I did that to honour my father. When I came back, I
didn’t even include Awolowo in my name, but when I checked into
politics, I decided to use what I have to get what I want. I thought
that was the greatest asset I had and I used it. I am not ashamed and I
don’t have any regret.
Or do you at times wish you should have come as a man?
No,
again, our parents never made any distinction between male and female
child. They gave everybody the same opportunity and as far as they were
concerned, it didn’t matter whether you were male or female. I certainly
don’t; I am happy to be a woman. There are many advantages to be a
woman; many privileges and I am happy to be one.
If you
were called tomorrow to take up a position either as a deputy governor
or minister, would that still be an avenue to pursue the Awo ideals?Is
that still possible at my age? That is the first question. The second
question is, for the sake of argument if that could happen, most
certainly. Again, I hope that I have been able to prove that I have
something in me also. I would know that if the criteria were based on
hundred per cent, about 60 per cent would be because I am a daughter of
Awolowo, so I would be doing a great disservice if I forgot that. And
people who put me there would be expecting me to perform.